Road to Cuckold

Tried that 🙂 As said she already plays into the rolepaly where she gets fucked and I watch. Step by step. I am just not sure if she wants threesome, foursomes etc. And its uncomfortable, stressy to discuss, admit and arrange all those.

Having a guy is easy. But I am not sure if we will get there.
 
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I fucked her with the sleeve. She didn't admit that she liked it when the dick is much thicker (Mine in particular is thin). However, I have rarely seen her scream and come so fast. She just always so considerate of me.

And that's the next point. Possibly all this looking after women and talking about FMFs could just be consideration. Because if she would tell about her lust for men, then she would come across like a slut. And she is just being emphatic.

Yesterday we came back to the topic that she can meet men without my being there. So far it was just a fantasy. Now it became more concrete: I assured her that I would not judge her if she told me that she meets other men or wants to. In fact, it would turn me on. I would really support her in this. I showed my hard one as proof. She again pretended to be confused. But now asked follow-up questions:

1. "Are you only doing this because you have expectations yourself to meet women then? Would it be OK for you if this was not for me?

2. "It's important to me that it's not an open relationship. I'm planning for the long term with both of us."

3. "Aren't you afraid for me if I have sex without you?"

4. "And how is it in your fantasy? What if I were to meet my ex or a friend, for example?"


Wow! My answers:
I said I would accept it without women, but we are welcome to do these things together. She sets the pace. And I am now into the idea of men spoiling her. My little hard as proof. I am also interested in a long-term relationship and sex should enrich but not be the focus. It is important that I have it under control and that de men are not from my environment.

Conclusion:
Her questions show that now she really thinks about it and considers to admit fucking around and her desire for men and that it before afraid of admitting. My affirmation that I support her was important. And especially that she brought up the scenario with the ex-boyfriend shows that she is thinking about telling me the truth. After all, I swore to her not to condemn it and even to be happy about it. Even if the step of revealing it is still too big. We are getting closer. I could take up the topic with the ex as a "what if example" in the future. I will make more innuendos and explain to her that it would turn me on if she cheated and that it would make me hugely happy if she told me such things honestly.
 
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Great read. I’ve run into similar situations with my wife. Typically even if I confronted her with the hard proof of cheating (showing her screenshots of her talking to another man) she only ever admits to what I have proof of. Now I just make it known I’m ok with it every day and dirty talk about how hot it is and how hot it would be. Every day she opens up a little bit more and tells me a little bit more. Keep us posted!
 
Such a not so nice update:

Last night we went out for a fancy dinner on our last night for 2 weeks. Afterwards the sex was incredible. After the sex we came back to the topic of meeting men. She can not understand it of course and always asks counter questions whether I want it so with women. She tries to lure me out of the reserve. Even with dirty talk from women on my trip. I told her it's not that.

To my renewed explanation and full support she said, no, she could not do that.

At the same time I saw again that she during our fancy dinner, arranged a meeting with er ex today at 20:00. He is coming to her place. She questioned me where I am in the evening and when. She always does that when she meets with him. The evening before still sex with me, today the next. All with building a web of lies.

She seems to have decided not to open up and continue to lie.

A condition I will not go along with in the long run. Unfortunately I have no innocent proof to confront her in a supportive way.
 
Hire a private investigator to help you find out.
Well I have the proofs but can't present them. If I hire somebody that's even worse.

I need to find a proof in an innocent way. Unfortunately they always meet at home, watch Netflix and have sex.i Wthout telling her to haviong had glance at her phone that's impossible.

For the argument that I should just let it go: No! For me a relationship based on lies is unacceptable. If she doesn't stop with it I will stop with her. For sure
 
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If you think you know when she's meeting him and she tries to figure out what you'll be doing during that time, tell her you have some plans, like you're going out to meet a friend somewhere, so won't be around. Then make a surprise visit to her place when you believe he is there and you can say your friend cancelled, so you thought you'd stop by to see her.

Not sure how familiar you are with her ex but if you don't catch them in the act, you could say you saw it parked outside her place.

I think if you have enough circumstantial evidence, you could say "I've told you that your having sex with other men would turn me on and if you admit to it now, I am fine with it and won't be upset. If you keep doing it behind my back and lying to me though, that is going to erode my trust and ruin the relationship"
 
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A very good plan. But: Unfortunately usually I am far far away. Also I dont know him.

I am that upset that I am just about to confront her even today without presenting her any kind of evidence - just leting her know that I know about her lies. Still being supportive. It's her choice:

1. Honesty and vanilla
2. Honesty and free sex for her
3. Dishonesty and break up

Most of us here forget: Being a devote cuckold doesn't mean being the loser guy. Those ladies still wont to dominate a successful charismatic guy. So man the f*** up.
 
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A very good plan. But: Unfortunately usually I am far far away. Also I dont know him.

I am that upset that I am just about to confront her even today without presenting her any kind of evidence - just leting her know that I know about her lies. Still being supportive. She will have to choose what diorection out relationship will go:

1. Honesty and vanilla
2. Honesty and free sex for her
3. Dishonesty and break up

Most of us here forget: Being a devote cuckold doesn't mean being the loser guy. Those ladies still wont to dominate a successful charismatic guy. So man the f*** up.
Could confront her and just say that you know what she's been doing and say that you're not going to tell her how you know, since the how is not important and that would just make it easier for her to hide it in the future.

If she pushed you to reveal you'd looked at her phone or guessed it, how does she really have a right to get mad if she caused you to be suspicious by actually cheating and then her phone confirmed it. It's the sort of reaction characters have in TV shows, which is probably somewhat realistic, but I always find ridiculous, where one person confronts another about lying/cheating and their only defense is "well you looked through my stuff!"... as if that somehow negates the cheating. Like, really, the problem is snooping, not the fact that you were doing something which validated the need to snoop?

Trust but verify has always been my policy. If someone has a track record of saying something and then checking reveals it is true, then real trust develops over time. How can you trust if you really have no idea whether someone was ever actually being truthful and then when their behavior compels you to check, it turns out they actually are lying/cheating.
 
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You have a problem now. Much bigger than it seems like you realize. Your relationship is teetering on the brink, whether you see it or not.
Well its visa versa. For example, these days when she was ...... with friends, she wrote me declarations of love and talked about our future children. I am not blind and she loves me idolatrously as she has never loved someone that much before. Even though I am submissive, I am the one who holds the reins.

Our Update:
Everything cooled down:

I confronted her. She opened up and did not deny. She told me that her ex was still after her a year ago, but she wasn't interested.

They were still having sex when we met in our early days, but we weren't a couple then. From what I researched, they only get together now to cook, watch Netflix, etc. - as good friends. It sounds like there is more to it, but there isn't. She was honest. I asked her "why all this web of lies?". She said because seeing the ex is a bad thing. His friends told her that being friends with the ex was a NOGO and that she should stop immediately.

During this conversation she about up about our desires: In the past, I have offered to have sex with as long as I know about it. She now said that she was absolutely not interested in other men. This is a major setback. She is submissive and from what I guess would rather watch me fuck other women. She more often brought women into dirty talk.

Now that all fronts are settled, the sex is less, the dirty talk less. It's still good, but just not boiling over anymore.

Let's see what time will bring. A cooling off can be good. We will soon attend a swingers party for young couples - "with no expectations" and "just looking around". This translates as we will have great sex among ourselves while being observed. She is curious and this will be like the last chance, because the last party was awkward because it was more of a fetish event and a turnoff.

However, she is still a sex addict. And the seed has already sprouted. Her sex and relationships have been vanilla so far. She said my desires were very unusual and she couldn't understand it. But until now she never had a chance to have a look at the lifestyle, young couples, big events. And I remember her choosing porn with a MFMF that she "loved every little thing that she saw".

Let's see where the future takes us. I will not push. Thinks will be more cooled down and vanilla.
 
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I don't know man, I don't want to create more tension but I find it difficult to believe your "sex addict" girlfriend (as you label her) is taking a huge risk and going to significant lengths to hide visits to her ex-boyfriend just to simply hang out and not have sex or any kind of intimacy. I just don't feel like most people would lie to their partner and take such a risk for a casual friendship.

On the other hand, it is pretty common for people to double-down on a lie by admitting a half truth and then going to great effort to hide the more damaging reality. It's funny that many wives on here, when told of their husband's sharing fantasy, immediately suspect it is a ploy to justify cheating with another woman - but in this case, I wonder if the reverse is happening and your girlfriend is now bringing up the idea of you ...... with other women to help try to balance out what she has already done.

I mean, previously you said she told you she did not want an open relationship or for you to have sex with other women... but now she does? She also previously, specifically asked "what if I were to meet my ex?"

As much as you've expressed that you want her to ...... with other men and would be turned on by it, I think she may be using it as license to give in to her own desires while still being unable to bring herself to actually tell you about it and now maybe increasingly scared to do so because she will reveal she had been lying and cheating.

Maybe I totally off-base, who knows.... the situation seems rather suspect though.
 
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Great thoughts! Still from what I could find out (without her knowing) she didn't cheat when we were a couple and I have a very strong feeling for what is the truth and what not. Time will tell. I will be able to see what is going on or not.

Anyway it doesn't make a difference, because: She is not open for an open relationship nor for other men as she said in the most open conversation we ever had. She said other men are really not on turn on for her - not at all. She is fantasizing about other women a bit since a long time. Its a small turn on for her. But she also admitted she is jealous. I don't think she whats me to have other women just to get her license with other men. If so she would be pushing that swinger party topic, but she is rather slowing it down. Also she could have easily admitted she would try it out when I gave her the full permission to meet other men.

On new years eve we will be on a great young couples swinger party with great show, food and ambience. Its that last chance for her to get a bit hungry for a good lifestyle. My guess is we will have sex there while being watched, what is a turn on for her.

After that I will be running out of ideas. Of course from now on she will always know she has the permission. But that doesn't change her desire.
 

Swingers party Update:

We joined the "luxury" swinger couple party on NYEs. We met a lot of young couples and it felt like they were friends. Other girls there told her that they were surprised we didn't have a threesome etc. already. When seeing a attractive couple she said she would love us to "join them". Yet she often also said "I just want you" and "Many guys fucking that girl looks disgusting" and when 2 guys appeared beside us she was disgusted. So we ended up fucking the whole night alone, but sometimes beside other couples.

At the end she really liked the lifestyle and we will join another couples party the next days. An MFM is impossible but an MFMF might be the way to go. Yet it might be difficult that the 4 will like each other. Especially on that parties with highly attractive couples...

About cuckolding:

I told her there is still a lot that I haven't told her yet. But I left it open. She probably has a clue. The day she asks will come. She also asked again if I have those fantasies just to get the permission to fuck other girls. I swore to her thats not the case.

When having sex the next day we watched porn and surprisingly she chose also porn with gangbangs and big black dicks - and she liked it.
 
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When having sex the next day we watched porn and surprisingly she chose also porn with gangbangs and big black dicks - and she liked it.
Did she seem as disgusted with the porn as she was seeing the things she saw at the swinger party? Did the encouragement/confidence boost help of other couples at the event have any lasting effect?
 
Did she seem as disgusted with the porn as she was seeing the things she saw at the swinger party? Did the encouragement/confidence boost help of other couples at the event have any lasting effect?
Good question. My takes:

  1. I think she liked the other young "cool" couples, and if they do it - why we shouldn't we do it?
  2. The guys fucking single girls at the party where not one of the attractive ones. She prefers that aesthetic ideal.
  3. She loves me endlessly and its so important to her to have a great sex life. She would do a lot to make me happy - maybe also trying out new porn.
  4. After that event and gangbang and seeing group sex she opened up. Not only for the idea of a MFMF but also for that porn. Maybe before she was just afraid to mention it.
Step by step. Maybe we will get to a MFMF and lets see what changes then. Yet I am not sure if it will happen.
 
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Ok, I feel very bad, I checked her WhatsApp. I know it's wrong, but I can't stand it when she lies either. I want clarity. Definitely things should be clarified to end this.

So what I think: there are still feelings involved for her ex.

When he left her after 8 years he said it felt like a friendship and nothing sexual anymore. That explains why she has some kind of trauma now and wants to make me sexually happy 24/7.

In the first few months they talked about their feelings but came to the conclusion that it is still over. For 18 months she has only told him once that she is on vacation with "with a guy". The other trips she told him she is on vacation with her best friend, etc. There were so many other likes. The same way she lied to me when she was meeting her ex. And even after our clarifying conversation she lied to me once again.

I think she has decided for me, but still has feelings for her ex and doesn't want to discard that option.
 
I can’t blame you for checking her WhatsApp. She has not been very open about her connection with her ex. The fact they he left her is significant, especially given the length of time they were together. Maybe she has a desire to make him understand what he gave up by leaving her.

It sounds like she still has, at a minimum, a sexual connection with him. Has she ever said anything about enjoying the sex (ie his cock size, or skill) with her ex? I get the feeling that she may be holding back information because she’s worried about losing you and the ex at the same time if she just came out and told you everything.

I read in a post of yours that, “His friends told her that being friends with the ex was a NOGO and that she should stop immediately.” How did this statement get revealed to you? Do you think his friends are trying to protect him from her? If you learned this from her then why do you think she told you?

Most people move on from a failed relationship and put it behind them. It doesn’t sound like she’s moved on.
 
Ok, I feel very bad, I checked her WhatsApp. I know it's wrong, but I can't stand it when she lies either. I want clarity. Definitely things should be clarified to end this.

So what I think: there are still feelings involved for her ex.

When he left her after 8 years he said it felt like a friendship and nothing sexual anymore. That explains why she has some kind of trauma now and wants to make me sexually happy 24/7.

In the first few months they talked about their feelings but came to the conclusion that it is still over. For 18 months she has only told him once that she is on vacation with "with a guy". The other trips she told him she is on vacation with her best friend, etc. There were so many other likes. The same way she lied to me when she was meeting her ex. And even after our clarifying conversation she lied to me once again.

I think she has decided for me, but still has feelings for her ex and doesn't want to discard that option.

I'm sorry man - that's pretty awful to find out. In a way, it seems worse than if she just went back to him because she missed the sex, since she seems to be pining for him but is not with him only because he isn't interested. That she is lying to both of you makes me worry that she A) probably isn't good hotwife material unless you like being actually cheated on / lied to and B) probably isn't good wife material in general.

People can get caught up pining for some lost relationship like this, sometimes more due to the psychology of being broken up with / passed over, and not being able to accept that, than because the ex was even that great. The problem is, they will romanticize that old relationship, forget about the parts that sucked and you'll never be able to compete with the nostalgic fantasy of what they imagine the relationship was and could be again.

My wife has a friend who is dating a guy like this. He has some obsession with an ex-wife who left him and has openly told my wife's friend that she doesn't measure up and that he'd leave her if his wife wanted him back. She found out he has been periodically messaging the ex-wife, even though she has no interest in ever getting back together. The real kicker is, he's a total tool and not good looking at all, while my wife's friend is attractive and has a successful career, so I have no idea why she is with him, other than she now has self-esteem issues because this tool reminds her that he'd rather be with his ex....

Like my wife's friend, I think maybe you should jump ship and try to find someone who is really into you, not pining for some ex. Honestly, it is kind of pathetic on your girlfriend's part that she can't move on.
 
It sounds like she still has, at a minimum, a sexual connection with him. Has she ever said anything about enjoying the sex (ie his cock size, or skill) with her ex? I get the feeling that she may be holding back information because she’s worried about losing you and the ex at the same time if she just came out and told you everything.
From what I found out the relationship ended as the got friends but not lovers anymore. As she mentioned the sex was very vanilla. The never looked into their eyes, she never used a toy before etc etc. From what I could read they have a deep connection still but there is nothing sexual anymore.

“His friends told her that being friends with the ex was a NOGO and that she should stop immediately.” How did this statement get revealed to you? Do you think his friends are trying to protect him from her?
When I confronted her once about lying to me when she was meeting her ex thats was her lie about the real reason of that behavior. Probably her friends also now about their deep connection. I told her if there is any issue and lies she will lose me.

majorem said:
B) probably isn't good wife material in general.
She is the most empathic girl I ever met. Her heart is golden. Everybody loves her. She is good wife material.

But there is only the ex issue. And if this doesn't get fixed I will take my stuff and pass along. In our lifes there is a big cut within this month anyway. From now on we travel together and she left the city. From what I can tell she has decided for me (and against him) as I am integrated in her family and her friends and we start a new chapter in life by moving now.
 
I will chime in here. She is not an empath. Her displays of empathy are "cognitive empathy", logically derived to appear empathetic rather than genuine emotionally based empathy. Her apology is "false contrition" utilized to keep you in the relationship for what you provide her. I say this because when empaths get caught cheating they don't react the way she did and they stop, plus it is rarer for them to cheat, especially blatantly in front of you.

You possibly have a Narcissist on your hands. They are very common in the population as a whole (1 out of 6) and even more so in the cuckold and sharing communities because the various interplay of sharing relationships align with the Narcissist's need for control.

I would need additional information to make a more certain determination, but with what you have given us I think the odds of her being a Narcissist are high. The reason I say this is because you are near the end of the first phase of a Narcissistic relationship called the "Golden Period" where they profess your perfection, will tell you things like God sent you to them, they will do anything for you, they like what you like and they give you lots of sex, and they make promises to give you big things you want in the future and life is fantastic with this wonderful person who you can't believe came into your life; it's as if you are in a relationship with your clone, that is how compatible you are with them. Then the problems start as you enter the longest phase of a Narcissistic relationship, "Sustained Devaluation". This is the period where the Narcissist triangulates you by playing you against other men, lies to you, cheats on you, starts backing away from their big promises to you (Future Faking), gaslighting you when they claim to never have said something or done something making you question your own reality, begin withdrawing their affection slowly but noticeably and generally drive you crazy with confusing behavior, statements and actions towards you which you try to make sense of considering how well things were just going.

Welcome to the emotionally painful and confusing Sustained Devaluation of a relationship with a Narcissist. You should know that you will never really get the Golden Period back, but will be bread-crumbed (small periods of respite) then sent back to devaluation. This works on your psyche to create an emotional addiction to the Narcissist. Her intuition is telling her that your ensnarement is good enough, that you are now under sufficient control as a committed partner to begin using corrective statements and actions on you to begin the slow sure process of destroying your self-esteem so that you morph into a more and more easily controlled partner that will serve her.

A big problem for Narcissistic victims is that over time you become "trauma bonded" to them, a "Stockholm Syndrome" type psychological state, which keeps you attached to the Narcissist. The severity of this trauma bond is determined by the victims underlying emotional makeup, the length of time in the relationship and how early in life the relationship began. These then define the difficulty the victim of the Narcissistic relationship will have in escaping from the toxic union.

I personally know a 45 year old man who has been in a relationship with a Narcissist since he was 15, with personality traits putting him at the bottom in terms of ability to break free of his trauma bond (High Empathy Low Self-Esteem), suffering from a mid-life crisis with an alcohol addiction and the Narcissist was implementing a brutal discard of him. My overwhelming convictions is that he will never break the trauma bond he has formed with his Narcissist, which has physically wired his brain (created new physical connections over a long duration) as a consequence of his Narcissist's psychological manipulation. This is literally a life threatening situation for him. Fortunately, due to circumstances the Narcissist picked him back up off the shelf for a respite period, but had things continued as they were I don't believe he would have survived a year. This is not an exaggeration or some kind of hyperbole, these relationships are that destructive to the Narcissist's victims. Often the emotional, mental and even physical ...... of a Narcissist during the discard phase reaches a level that is difficult to capture with words in its cruelty and brutality. Typically this further confuses the victim as they have done nothing differently or wrong; the Narcissist has just found their replacement and is no longer in need of them for now, so they emotionally and sometimes physically ...... their victim which makes the Narcissist feel powerful and in control. They actually relish inflicting pain on someone they supposedly loved. It is pretty sick to experience or witness, but it is the reality of these evil people.

My own personal experience with cognitive (phony) empathy illustrates a Narcissist's fake façade versus the real person. I was with a Narcissist woman recently for 5 days. Great looking 30 year old who everybody thought was a sweet, kind, and caring person who didn't have a mean bone in her body. I know how to draw out Covert Narcissists to expose themselves from experience. It is a self protection skill I developed to identify them quickly because I definitely attract them. This girl went fucking stupid psycho when I used my Narc test on her. Your girl's appearing to be highly empathetic as you say could actually be a manipulation technique she uses to ensnare and fool people. Narcissists are different people with their intimate partners behind closed doors where their abusive behavior (verbal and/or physical) can't be seen by "their public", hence everyone is shocked when they are unmasked due to some event which shows the real person. Their abusive behavior usually gets into full swing about 6-12 months into the Sustained Devaluation phase of the relationship. During this timeframe the victim will seek to appease the Narcissist in the hope of returning to that amazing Golden Period, but except for short periods of bread-crumbing respite, they will never get back there.

Most Narcissists, especially females of their kind, create a false persona to present to the outside world of colleagues, acquaintances, friends, etc. This fabricated façade is constructed as a protective mechanism to shield their feelings of inadequacy and low self-esteem from the outside world. They are constantly in need of admiration and ego boosting (Narcissistic Fuel) to keep their feelings of low self-worth from rising within themselves to the surface where they would have to experience these negative emotions. They spend all their waking moments seeking this positive praise (Fuel) to avoid dealing with their feelings of insignificance. Narcissists during the longest relationship phase of Sustained Devaluation use a variety of techniques to criticize confuse and demean their victim to control their victim, usually the Primary Intimate Partner. There is a lot to their manipulation techniques and different Narcissists use different techniques in different amounts to accomplish their goals, but there are many commonalities which Narcissists do almost as if they all attended the same Narcissism school. It is also important to understand the critical fact that 99.9% of Narcissists are unaware that they are in fact Narcissists because the defense mechanism of their affliction blocks out self reflection preventing them from accepting a diagnosis of Narcissism or even seeking a diagnosis (hey there is nothing wrong with me you are the one that needs help). The unaware Narcissists, or basically almost all of them, don't scheme and plan as much as people imagine, but are motivated instead by instinct and intuition. Their actions are driven by emotions which seem to originate from their subconscious reducing the ability of logical thinking to prevent or intervene in the Narcissists behaviors. In many ways they are on auto-pilot and they are unaware they even have a pilot.

There is much, much, much more to these toxic people and the suffering they create, but it is important to understand who they are so you can avoid them if at all possible, or limit their damage to you when not possible, because these people do leave chaos and destruction in their wake. Biggest take aways I can advise to anyone involved with a Narcissist is to understand they can not change because they don't have the physical brain area that would make it possible, they will create more suffering and hardship in your life than you could ever have imagined happening to you, and the only way to save yourself is to get away from the Narcissist by having absolutely NO CONTACT with them ever again. The tragedy though is that very few of their victims manage to escape to avoid this destruction because of the trauma bond they have formed with their Narcissists. It is scary stuff and difficult to comprehend it is so bizarre.

My advice to NobodysRage is to run from this relationship and don't look back. Let us know what you do and how it is going. If you stay I strongly suspect you are going to need good advice.
 
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